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Posted: 12/22/2008 11:02:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE]
This was originally done in word so a copy and paste into word will make the links active.
Everything you wanted to know about reloading but was a afraid to ask. By Tj What is reloading? Reloading is simply taking the base components of a cartridge, brass, bullet, primer, and powder and assembling them. The process requires a lot of tools but inexpensive kits are sold that will get you started. The basic components are a press to push the main components together, a scale to weigh the powder charge, dies to work in the press to resize and manage the component fit, lubrication to insure the brass does not stick in the dies, and calipers (measuring tools) capable of measuring to 0.001”. Other tools like brass neck trimming tools or deburring tools may be needed depending on what rounds you are reloading and under what conditions. This is a very neat site that shows the basic steps in reloading. http://www.rcbs.com/guide/printsteps.html Why Reload? There are two basic reasons that most people reload. Probably the most popular is to save money. Like most things, if you shop around in buying your components and especially if you reuse your own brass, reloading can save quite a bit of money. The best reason to reload however is to get the very best firing ammunition possible one suited to your specific task or gun. It’s a misconception of non-reloading shooters that reloaded ammunition is inferior to factory ammunition. This is due to a large part to individuals or companies that do reloading in mass for resale. The fact of the matter is, if you spend the time and do it right, a person can make custom ammunition that will out perform any factory ammunition. Is reloading right for me? Reloading isn’t for everyone. To be frank, I’m surprised so many people reload that probably shouldn’t. It’s not the technical aspects that makes me say this but the fact they do not have the time or even bother to take the art beyond trashing out ammunition you can buy anywhere in quantities that does not cover their initial investment. If you are an avid shooter, reloading is a worthwhile endeavor and if you are a precision shooter almost a necessity. Initial cost to get started can be as low as $150 but if you get into it any at all, you will easily have $500 to over $1,000 invested in no time at all. Reloading is as addictive as shooting its self and every new caliber you reload comes with its own set of challenges. If you are capable of basic math, understand weighing, measurements, and have a basic mechanical knowledge then you can reload. Its no more difficult than the basic stuff one would learn in first year high school chemistry lab. It really helps to have a basic understanding of manufacturing techniques because a lot of reloading is repetitive do this step then do that step and the same basic quality control standards used in manufacturing very much apply like quality control etc. How do I get started? There are few things you can do in the gun culture that one should first research and learn before doing more than reloading. The person just starting really won’t have an idea of what they want to do until they learn what is capable of being done. A good place to start is in forums like this, asking questions, researching what is available on the market on the Internet, and taking the time to learn how its done before you jump in and buy a bunch of gear. Its pretty awkward to try to run 1,000s of rounds on a simple single station press and likewise to do precision low volume loading or multiple caliber’s on a high volume semi-automated setup. Reloading data is available in all kinds of places, however the best place to start is always a book on reloading. These books published by the equipment manufacturers and bullet manufacturers include not only data for a given caliber, bullet, and powder but the basics as well as good advice on what to do and what not to do or what you may encounter. I practically do not use my book for reloading data anymore at all, however I use the book constantly for reference information such as round dimensions or basic setup issues. Taking your best guess at what kind of press you will buy and then buying a book from another manufacturer before you buy the press is something I highly recommend. It allows you to research each caliber you may want to reload, observe the issues each may have unique to them, thus make a better decision on what gear to buy initially. A good low cost simple approach is buying a very basic kit and starting with a simple pistol caliber like .45 or 9mm. This same equipment can be used later for doing low volume precision loads of various calibers and you can always buy a high volume round setup later. Here’s a short list of sites to visit: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/subcategory/subcategory.jsp?id=cat20728&cmCat=search_redir&QueryTerm=reloading&redirect=true&cmCat=search_redir&sort=all http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp http://www.hornady.com/ http://www.imrpowder.com/pdf_reload.html http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=links This is by no means all inclusive and Google is your friend. Dies Dies are the heart of any reloading setup. They are hard metal hollow parts that resize the brass and seat the bullet. Dies are for the most part universal and one manufacturers dies can be used in another’s press. There are all kinds of dies with a bunch of features however the basic dies needed for reloading are two, a resizing die and bullet seating die. As its name implies a resizing die simply resizes the brass case to its within dimensional specifications so it will reload properly. A bullet seating die press the bullet into place in the brass to the proper height. It may or may not crimp the brass to hold bullet tightly. Crimping dies are separate dies to hold crimp the bullet tight in place and colet dies resize the neck closer than simple resizing dies. Though many manufacturers tout their case hardened dies as not needing lubrication on the brass, it is not something I recommend. Case hardened dies are great and will last a lifetime but a stuck piece of brass can really slow down your reloading times as well as being quite annoying. I recommend brass lubrication no matter what die you use. This sounds complicated to the beginner but it really isn’t once you get into it some. Types of Presses A press is as the name implies a simple rod that presses components together. There are hand presses, 0 frame presses, turret presses, and progressive presses. Few things you will get into like this is the tooling so universal as reloading. Much of the gear you will acquire can be used with other presses. Dies for example will work on about any type or brand press and all the measuring tools can be used no matter what setup you choose. A hand press is a simple lever press that is hand operated. They are very inexpensive and a place many beginners start to see if its something they want to get into. Their big advantage is they are portable and is something often used at the range to change powder charges, test the charge, and then make alterations on the spot. Low cost and portability is this types strength but it has many limitations on what it can do. Its slow to set up and the power is no where near that of a bench mounted press. It does get you pretty use to changing out dies though. Most people who use these in the field will do all the steps at home first and do only powder charging and bullet seating at the range. About the most widely used hand press is the Lee Hand Press. The O frame press or single station press is the most common used press. It’s a single station press like the hand press which will operate only one die at a time. These are typically bench mounted or bolted down and operated by the pull of a handle. Using them to reload is a batch operation or if you follow the first link on this write up to do each step one lot or number of parts, a batch, at a time. They are used with bullet holding trays so that you can do each step to completion before moving on. Though many manufactures make O Frame Presses that are just fine about the most recognized and popular is the RCBS Rock Chucker. Turret presses are simply a lever type press that allows you keep all of your dies set up necessary for a given reload. The operator can switch dies by turning the turret. Many turrets can have removable heads so you can setup different loads and quickly change between the calibers. This is still a batch process but it allows the operator to combine some one piece flow techniques in their reloading so greatly increasing the number of rounds that can be reloaded within a given time frame. What’s very good about these type presses is it can be used like the O frame and just as suitable for low volume precision loading as changes can be made as you go easily. Turret presses have extra holes in their turrets so other operations like powder charging and primer seating can be added. Though once again many of the brand names make fine turret presses, my preferance here is the Lyman Tmag. Its simply one very sturdy design that comes in more complete kits for a reasonable price. It is worth mentioning though, RCBS also makes a sturdy turret press. Progressive presses are basically a turret press that indexes (turns) with each stroke of the press. They can be setup to do all kinds of operations including powder charging and primer seating. These are best for high volume reloading dramatically decreasing the time reload a given number of rounds. Their advantage is pretty straight forward, they put out a tremendous amount of reloads in a very short amount of time. They have two disadvantages. They are difficult to setup thus changes are slower and when putting out that many rounds in such a short amount of time quality control becomes much more critical. The machine can go out of spec and if the operator is not careful will be putting out a bunch of rounds out of specification. This is the type press used by relaoders who do reloading in volume for resale and the root cause of the reputation reloading has as a whole. That being said, the type is very popular with reloaders especially those who do volume shooting. Without a doubt one of the most popular presses of this type is the Dillon 550b. Powder Measures The part of a cartridge that determines how fast the bullet travels is the powder charge. This is determined by the type of powder and is measured by weight in a very small unit of measurement called grains. There’s all kinds of powder measurement techniques but one piece of gear that is essential is a scale. Although volumetric methods like the Lee Powder Measure which is simply measuring cup do a fair job there really is only one way to know that the charge is right for a given powder and that’s weigh it. There are two types of scales used in reloading an electronic scale and counter balance scale (triple beam/balance beam type). These scales are not only used for quality control but setup of mechanical dispensers and even check the weight in the spoon types. Mechanical dispensers are volumetric dispensers that will dispense powder quickly either hand crank or mechanically activated by your press. Calibration of these type measures are done by doing adjustments using your measure scale to insure you have the right load. Once setup, your scale should be used to check that they remain in calibration. Since this is a common area for reloading in volume errors, a cheap inexpensive dispenser is not recommended. Since these are within a given tolerance most precision reloads do not use them at all opting for measuring on a scale each load. Powder tricklers are a simple device that at the turn of a know trickles powder slowly into a measure. These are highly recommended for very exact loads without over shooting your target mark. Of the mechanical dispensers the only one I would recommend avoiding is Lee opting instead for RCBS or Lyman. Of course on the progressive presses you will stick with the manufacturer who made the press and Dillon makes a very good one. My personal preference for precision loading is a Lyman electronic scale and Redman powder trickler (the marble base one its heavy so doesn’t tip or move easily). This greatly increases your speed in doing loads down to the tenth of a grain. One of things most taken for granted due to its low cost is a funnel. It makes dumping the measured poweder charge into the case very fast. By far here I recommend the $5 Lyman Ezeee. It has a funnel bottom design that fits almost any case and much more versatile and easy to use. Everything in reloading is about time with faster with the most precision being best. Bullet Pulling Needless to say, as you do setups you will most likely end up with some test cartridges that can not be used in a gun. Bullet pulling is a method to remove the bullet so you can use the components. The most common method is a hammer type device that simply uses inertia to remove the bullet. Its advantage is it works on almost all calibers. An easier method and on preferred by volume reloaders is like the Hornady Collet puller which is press mounted like a dies and uses a lever. Like a die, it is caliber specific and the collet has to be changed for each caliber. Case Preparation This is another area that is most often not done correctly but is very important. The first step is case cleaning. This is most commonly done by the use of a tumbler which is simply a vibration bowl with a media like walnut or corn cob that will vibrate the case until clean. A neat little trick here is to add a little Brasso to your media which will make the brass shine like new. Manufacturers will recommend this time or that time but ultimately the judge of when the brass is clean is your eyes. Turn them off periodically and simply check. A good technique is to do this separate from reloading or run a separate batch as you reload. A watched pot never boils. People have all kinds of preferences on which media to use but most of them work and it isn’t that critical if you use a do this separate from reloading approach. Many manufactures make decent tumblers and I can really recommend one over the other. My personal preference is RCBS but I think that’s just a personal preference on my part. One has to remove the media from the cases after cleaning. There’s some neat tubling devices for doing that as well however most tumblers come with a simple screen method to do the same thing. The separate tumblers are best suited for volume reloading. The second step in case preparation is visual inspection of the case. Cases with scratches that are over 1/3 the case thickness (judgement call), dented, split, or bent should be discarded. Other than a course inspection before cleaning, visual inspection should be done after cleaning 100%. Most pistol calibers do not require case trimming however rifle calibers do. Rifle caliber cases should be measured at this point and trimmed to the proper height. There are low cost manual trimmers for doing this, however they are pretty slow requiring constant measuring. The most popular is a mandrel type trimmer which can be setup to a height then repeat it case after case. These come as hand crank types or electric run types. After trimming the case should be inspected again this time checking the height and looking for burrs. Burrs are slivers of metal left over from the cutting. They can be easily removed by an inexpensive deburring tool which is simply a hand tool that you turn to remove the burr. Military ammunition presents a unique challenge. Many military ammunition uses a crimp to hold the primer in. If you are reloading this brass, you will need to ream this out so you can reseat a new primer. There’s manual tools for doing this as well as press mounted which I consider the easiest. Its pretty easy at this point to understand why many prefer turret presses or why even progressive die users will have another press around. Its more holes to mount stuff and do other tasks. Case Lubrication Cases are given a very thin coat of lubricant to insure ease of resizing in the dies and to reduce chances of the brass getting stuck. There’s all kinds of ways of doing this but the most common is simply a pad with lubricant and rolling the case on the pad. A neat product I like is One Shot which is a spray can that can be used to spray or on your lube pad. I like using both methods or at least keeping some One Shot around for that odd resize to test this or that. Primers and Priming Primers come in different sizes and types. The basic sizes are large and small pistol and large and small rifle. There can also be a magnum designation for the same sizes. Here its simply best to follow your reloading book on recommendation. The first step in using primers is to orient them open end up. You can do this by hand but a simple tool is a closed pate which you shake and the primers will naturally turn open end up due to the weight difference. There are a number of different priming tools but its basically two types press mounted and manual. Press mounted its on your press and will be part of the normal loading sequence. To use this method simply follow the press manufacturers recommendations. Many turrent presses offer this in their kits or as an option so its good to keep this in mind. Needless to say, the mounted units have to be changed to fit different size primers. The most common manual method is a lever type with loading tray like the Lee Hand Primer. It too has to be changed between small or large primers. Its actually a pretty fast step and pretty easy. Bullet Holders I specifically mention these because it is probably the least item covered in discussions of reloading yet it is a critical component. The part that holds the brass in the press and for that matter the manual reloader is the shell holder. It’s a simply metal piece that comes in a bunch of different sizes. They come in kits for about $10 and there are two types press which has a slot to fit in the bottom of your press and primer loader for your hand primer. I highly recommend if you plan on multiple calibers to buy a kit right off. An odd ball thing I just ran into on this topic is a reseating die that wouldn’t go down to the minimum height. It was because the seat was from one manufacture and dies from another. The most common of the bullet holder kits is Lee, which is also the lowest in height, which makes it very versatile. Bullets I could write a book on bullets but will opt to encourage the reader to visit the bullet manufacture sites and learn. For this write up, one needs to know each bullet size and weight requires a specific powder load and over all length called OAL. This will be in your reloading manual or in the powder manufacturers reloading data. Bullets are designed to do many things from superior flight to damage upon impact with many things in between. It is one of the major items in reloading that is a variable and can make your reloading a lot of fun due to all the different rounds you can make. I will mention that in handgun reloading a very much overlooked lower cost option is lead. There are some fine lead bullets on the market that will do a fantastic job. Powders If you are looking for the one area that can cause catastrophic failure in reloading its being careless with powder. We can only use weight as a measurement for loads because someone else did the pains taking process of determining burn rates and pressures for us. Only use powders that you have data for and the best approach is a low load and work your way up to a higher load. Now that being said there is an amazing amount of loading data out there for you to try. The powder manufacturers are a good source for reloading data. They will also list powders by burn rates or rank them. A fast powder will give you sharp low recoil while a slower powder will push the bullet more even. The more you work with different powders the more you yourself will become more familiar with the differences and find your preferences for a given load. Its these variances in bullets and powders that are talked about most in reloading. Reloading documentation This is a very critical step in reloading. Once you find the perfect load for a given gun and application, it’s a pain to not know how to duplicate it and equally a pain to fire some test rounds and not know what not to do again. This isn’t as complicated as it seems. What I typically do is my reloading book is my bible and in my bible I keep print outs of all the reloading data I picked up other places like the powder sites. My book if filled with pages of reloading data. Some people use notebooks, which is fine too. The other thing I do is simply put a sliver of paper in the box on what those rounds were loaded to or use a permanent market on a zip lock baggie. Once I find a good one, I log it in my book giving some detail on why I like it. Precision Reloading Tools A major advantage to reloading is being able to curtail your ammunition to a specific gun and specific task such as long distance shooting. This was a major goal of mine. I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised as soon as I moved away from .45 caliber I went out and bought a chronograph. A chronograph is a simple tool that measures how fast the bullet is traveling after it leaves the barrel of a gun. Its typically a wire frame box with gives the speed in feet per second and many have data loggers in them which will keep track of a number of rounds so you can tell the variance. This is very important in doing ballistic calculations which basically is a way to predict bullet drop over distance. Here’s a great little site to get someone started in ballistic calculations: http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx If you play with a ballistic calculation, it will greatly enhance your reloading experience reducing experimentation time. People use to kid me I was the only person they ever met that did ballistic calculations on handguns. I just shrugged it off for I wasn’t after getting a handgun to reach out 300m but narrow how many loads I tried to find the perfect load for the application. In General Reloading is very much as big a hobby as shooting its self. Unlike other hobbies though, this one feeds your shooting hobby increasing the experience. To many of us it’s a very worthwhile endeavor. For many, we simply do not have the time to devote to this endeavor to get the maximum out of it but then we don’t have to for whatever your reason if you achieve your goal then you will be pleased. For me, winter is reloading time. I have more time in winter and it beats vegetating in front of the tube. I encourage everyone who is into shooting to take the time to learn about reloading. Even if you never take it up, it will make you a better shooter just for the learning. |
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"We prepare so we don't have to go to the Superdome!"
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Unfortunately, these things get asked on a weekly basis.
Very good article - AeroE, please, please, please tack this. ETA: Adding ma96782's guide, Edited and made pretty by AssaultRifler - AeroE will probably shoot me, but I took a stab at editing Marks getting started tips keeping most of the original content, changing the order of a few things, and making it flow better in the spirit of getting it added to the Forum Resources. I'm not trying to steal Mark's work, just edit a bit. Mark wrote it, it's his writing. If added to the Forum Resources we can just post a link to it and save some bandwidth in the forum. Here goes: –––––––––––––––––––––––––––– Getting Started: by ma96782 Originally posted 24 September 2008: To begin on your path to re-loading. My suggestions would be to: 1) Get a hold of some books and check the Internet. 2) Invest in a re-loading manual (or several). 3) Learn the processes that one must go through in order to produce a round of ammunition. 4) Get an idea of how certain jobs are done and take notes of the choices available to do the job. 5) Get a mentor and/or go to classes that might be held by the local gun shop or gun club. Suggested sites: 1) Safety hunting.about.com/library/weekly/aareloadsafetya.htm 2) What you’ll need www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=33 3) Overview of the Handloading Ammo process en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handloading 4) Re-Loading Pistol Ammo www.reloadammo.com/relsteps.htm 5) Re-Loading Rifle Ammo rifle-company.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=911 Substitution of components: The Manual writers/publishers and editors, decide what's their safety margin and each will have their own threshold for safety. Load data between various manuals will vary. Each manual contains many WARNINGS. One popular warning, is against making any “substitution” of components, as it may be dangerous.Try reading this subject: How do changing various components affect chamber pressure and velocity? www.frfrogspad.com/miscelld.htm#components From Speer:. IMPORTANT NOTE: Reloading data published by SPEER are for SPEER bullets. Many of our bullets are of unique construction; there is no such thing as "generic loading data" any more. Other bullet makes may produce significantly different pressures and velocities. We make no warranty that our published loads are safe with another make of bullet. You, the reloader, bear the ultimate responsibility for knowing your firearm, loading equipment, and techniques.
So, what do you do, if you don’t have the exact re-loading components as mention in the book? It isn't always practical to wait until you have the exact components. In that case search available resources and various internet web sites. Even contact the manufacturer. Always remember to start low and work your way up. Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t. Most re-loaders will not just "pick one" from the book or reproduce someone else’s load and expect the best results. Suggested equipment As a first press I suggest a bench mounted single station press to learn the techniques and "problem solving" of re-loading. Later, if you want more production consider a progressive press. You'll also need: A re-loading manual (or several manuals). F/L Sizer Two Die set (or 3 die set). Shell holder. A way to clean dirty cases (liquid cleaner or tumbler/vibratory machine w/ media or a wipe down w/rag). A way to de-prime military cases (regular die or universal de-capper or hammer and anvil method). A way to de-crimp military cases (swage or ream). A way to prime cases (on press or off press). A way to lube cases (what lube and applied w/fingers or pad with lube or spray lube). A way to test your re-sized cases (case gauge or actual rifle chamber). Caliper (though, not absolutely needed if you use a case gauge). A way to trim cases (hand powered or motorized). A case de-bur/chamfer tool, if your trimmer didn't do it all in one pass. A way to measure and dispense powder (dippers or disk measure or hopper/dispenser). A way to weigh the powder (electronic or balance beam scale) Powder. Primers. Bullets. Cartridge cases. These basic tools and components will do for simple ammunition production. Lee IF you're looking to go cheap (not a bad "cheap") consider Lee. Shop for your best prices. LEE products are frequently discounted Lee makes good dies and include a shell holder and powder dipper w/load data chart. When re-loading bottle neck cases (.223/5.56mm) to be used in a semi auto buy the full length re-sizer, two die set. Generally, you don't need a small base die set. If you want the Lee Factory Crimp Die (FCD) they also have a three die set that includes it for a little extra. When re-loading for straight walled pistol cases (e.g. 9mm, 45 ACP, .38 Special), Buy the carbide, three die set. The carbide re-sizer will eliminate the need to lube cases. And if you want the Lee FCD, Lee has a four die set for most of the popular calibers. There are many LEE single station presses to choose from. www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1217810820.1709=/html/catalog/classic.html www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1217810820.1709=/html/catalog/rlpress1.html If you're in the market for a "kit." I like this one. www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1217810820.1709=/html/catalog/rlpress2.html#breech A good compromise between a single station and a progressive is a Turret Press........ www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1217810820.1709=/html/catalog/turretpress.html Upgrading to a Progressive A good press will last a lifetime and then some. Be it a LEE or RCBS or whatever other brand.I bought a lot of my starter equipment, USED. And, I still have a lot of it. My first press was a used RCBS Jr. and I later traded it for a used RCBS Rock Chucker. My friend wanted a smaller press and it was a straight across trade. So, how could I refuse? After a long time of using a single station press I up-graded. I bought a Dillon. Later I bought three LEE M1000 presses (just for pistol calibers). Even after I got the progressive presses there will always be a job for the single station press on my bench since.you don't really gain that much IF you're re-loading bottle necked cases. BECAUSE, of the case prep steps (case lube, military primer crimps and trimming cases). However, a progressive press will really shine when you're doing straight walled cases with carbide dies. The Reloading Process Assuming you're using a single stage press. 1) Inspect and clean the cases. A liquid bath in hot water and dish soap will get them clean though, not shiny. Alternatively you can just wipe the cases off with a solvent dampened rag. To clean with some shine, Birchwood Casey Case Cleaning Solution (#33845 CCI) is a fast and cheap way. Mix with water (follow the directions on the package) soak the brass, drain and dry. Save the solution as it can be re-used. 2) Set up your press with the shell holder and de-capper/FL re-sizer die. 3) Lube the cases. LEE lube (#90006) can be applied with fingers. Or, buy a spray on lube from one of the "other brands." 4) Then, run some test cases through the die, it'll de-cap/re-size the brass in one pass. 5) The secret to re-loading a bottle neck cartridge is a case gauge. There are many different brands and ways to gauge your re-loads. I use a Forster Products case gauge (the Wilson or Dillon case gauges are also popular choices). Examples of various gauges…….. www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=REMTHT&type=store Using a case gauge, check the brass to ensure that the proper re-size, has been achieved. Insert a case into the case gauge. The headstamped end of the case, needs to be at or between the high and low cuts on the gauge, to pass. This checks the headspace. While the other end, is used to check if the case will need to be trimmed (a job for later on). If it’s not the “correct size,” your die setting will need adjustment. Lower the ram and simply screw the die in or out a little. Don’t forget about the lock nut. Then, re-size another couple of test cases and check your work again. Repeat the test and adjustments, as needed. You can read this link for more information: www.chuckhawks.com/adjust_reloading_dies.htm 6) When you're satisfied that your test cases are properly re-sized, do the entire lot. 7) Trimming brass. Remember the case gauge? Well, if your brass failed the gauge test, you will need to trim the brass. Or check the brass length with a caliper. The cheapest way to trim brass, is with the Lee case trimmer. You'll need the cutter & lock stub and shell holder & case length gauge tools. The assembled trimmer runs on hand power or with a drill. Once the trimming is done, use a chamfer/reamer tool (LEE #90109) to "knock off the edge" on the newly cut case necks. 8) Clean the brass to take off the lube.......repeat, Step #1. 9) Then, re-prime the cases with a new primer. The Lee auto prime hand tool makes fast work of this job. BTW, you'll need a special shell holder (not your reg. press shell holder) made especially for the Lee auto prime or .use your press mounted primer tool. 10) After the cases have been re-primed, place the cases in a loading block. 11) Using a simple powder measure, calibrate it to throw the weight of powder charge that you want. 12) Check the thrown weight with your scale. 13) When you're satisfied that the weight is correct, charge each of the cases with powder. 14) Next, remove the de-capper/re-sizer die from the press and replace it with the bullet seating die. Then, place the bullet on top of the opening of the case neck. Run the case w/bullet into the bullet seating die. 15) Inspect your rounds. You're done. Crimped primer pockets in military cases: If you’re dealing with military cases add these steps........... 1) With once fired military brass, this next step only has to be done once. You could de-cap primers with the standard de-cap/re-sizer die. Though due to the primer crimp, there is a high incidence of parts breakage. IMHO, de-cap the once fired military brass using either, a “universal” de-capper die or with a skinny nail/punch and anvil (with a hole in it, large enough for the old primer to fall out of, but still support the case rim). Or, buy the LEE military primer de-capper set (#90102-.30 cal., #90103-.22 cal.). Simply, run the nail/punch down through the case neck. The nail will enter the flash hole and rest against the old primer. Put the case on the anvil (old primer centered over the anvil’s hole). Then, with a hammer knock out the old primer, letting the old primer fall through the hole in the anvil. Yes, the military crimp is sometimes that stubborn. 2) Again, since we’re using once fired military brass, this next step has to be done only once. The primer crimp will need to be removed. The crimp gets either swaged or reamed/cut. My friend has a Dillon swage and I use a Lyman hand reamer/cutting tool. Both can do the job..One is cheaper. Lyman hand reamer (#7777785 Large, #7777784 Small). I do the crimp removal while watching TV. It's as simple as: pick up a case, insert the tool into the primer pocket and twist, remove case. Commercial cases usually don't have a primer crimp to bother with so these steps can be omitted. Likewise, for the next time you load these “already treated” military cases. |
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"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
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Originally Posted By fenderfreek:
Unfortunately, these things get asked on a weekly basis. Very good article - AeroE, please, please, please tack this. I second the tack request, unfortunately, once tacked, no one will read it |
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YIKES nice to much info
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Lots of good info, thanks for the post. Very tack-worthy
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Just a comment - avoid using Brasso in your tumbler. Brasso contains ammonia which will weaken the brass of your cases. Instead, use an ammonia-free polish like Dillon rapid polish.
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Speaking of unread tacked threads;
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=258520 Your moderator has set up a device so that anyone can in effect tack any thread they want. They'll stay unread, too. This thread has the archive status toggled, so now I will wait to find out what happens next. fenderfreek, Assaultrifler rewrote Mark's looonng 3 post text book months earlier. |
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<font size=3>Obama is the Leader of Fools</font id=s3>
1 lbf = 32.174 lbm-ft/sec^2 SYSTEM MESSAGE: tard limit exceeded on both sides. |
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Speaking of unread tacked threads; http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=258520 Your moderator has set up a device so that anyone can in effect tack any thread they want. They'll stay unread, too. This thread has the archive status toggled, so now I will wait to find out what happens next. The first page of the reloading and other tech forums should show ONLY tacked threads and FAQ's. You have have to click your way to the first page of forum posts. Aside from getting yelled at for my post's, if you are two frickin' lazy or dumb to do even 5 minutes research, I'm not smart enough to help you. |
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The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?
Ass, gas or brass. Nobody rides for free. |
We should have a tacked "Getting Started" thread IMHO. With links the tutorials, FAQ's, equipment, TJ's and Mark's posts, etc. Then reply to every "how do I get started" type of thread with with a link to the Tacked Thread then lock it as a dupe . Sounds harsh but there's a new getting started post every day it seems and all the answers vary depending who replies at the time. As an example, the AR15 -> Ammunition forum has a tacked thread "ALL POSTS ABOUT THE PRICE AND AVAILABILITY OF AMMO GO HERE! " which corrals all the ammunition price and availability posts into one thread.
Food for thought |
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Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
Originally Posted By fenderfreek:
Unfortunately, these things get asked on a weekly basis. Very good article - AeroE, please, please, please tack this. I second the tack request, unfortunately, once tacked, no one will read it A few of us newbies will read it. But I could still ask all the basic questions if it makes you feel appreciated |
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Originally Posted By AeroE:
Speaking of unread tacked threads; http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=258520 Your moderator has set up a device so that anyone can in effect tack any thread they want. They'll stay unread, too. This thread has the archive status toggled, so now I will wait to find out what happens next. fenderfreek, Assaultrifler rewrote Mark's looonng 3 post text book months earlier. LOVE IT! Us re-loaders are so "high speed", we don't even need mods! ETA: as long as some jackass dosent start tacking stupid stuff |
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Originally Posted By ksJoe:
Originally Posted By wshbrngr:
Originally Posted By fenderfreek:
Unfortunately, these things get asked on a weekly basis. Very good article - AeroE, please, please, please tack this. I second the tack request, unfortunately, once tacked, no one will read it A few of us newbies will read it. But I could still ask all the basic questions if it makes you feel appreciated LOL, the more complicated the better I love the hard ones(questions) but he is right, it seems to be the load data that people ask for. Its tacked at the top of the page |
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May want to modify the Case Lube section recommending One Shot case lube.
Either add to let it dry before sizing or a good plug for stuck case removal. This seems to come up once a week also. Good article but will seldom be read. The new guy's will keep asking the same questions and we will try to keep answering. |
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I believe the "Redman powder tricker" is actually the Redding powder trickler.
I just spent 15 minutes trying to find a red man trickler, google search turned up some horrifying results. |
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كافر
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Originally Posted By Tromatic:
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Speaking of unread tacked threads; http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=258520 Your moderator has set up a device so that anyone can in effect tack any thread they want. They'll stay unread, too. This thread has the archive status toggled, so now I will wait to find out what happens next. The first page of the reloading and other tech forums should show ONLY tacked threads and FAQ's. You have have to click your way to the first page of forum posts. Aside from getting yelled at for my post's, if you are two frickin' lazy or dumb to do even 5 minutes research, I'm not smart enough to help you. Read the first post in the linked Gateway thread ... Never mind. |
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20 January 2013 - The End of an Error
1 lbf = 32.174 lbm-ft/sec^2 |
Boy, I must be dense. First off. Thanks Thomas Jefferson. You mind if I repost in Missouri HTF ? In a few weeks we're doing a Mizzoura Homeboyz reloading class and this thread would be perfect to link to, at least.
That said. there must be a disconnect of reality for me. I thought one of the first things we do here. (Some of us) Is welcoming new reloaders and suggesting what to read and where. I know.... No one likes to read as suggested by the what's " the charge range " threads. Nothing comes easy or quick in this hobby guys. What knowledge you have is from study. What lessons you get are from hard fought trials and research. You get that from reading. We can point you in the right direction but damned if we can make you read. (Where is that damned horse?) AeroE made the thread gateway so we don't have a page full of "interesting and useful threads". Not to mention the ones who've done the "tutorials". There's two places that contain a wealth of information. Information that many of us point newcomers to daily. (Time to beat another horse, next.) |
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" God Bless Our Snipers ".
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Time to put this back on page 1.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
My turn.
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Remember Braydon Nichols and his Dad, Chinook Pilot CWO Bryan Nichols, KIA in Afghanistan 6 August 2011
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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BTT
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Holy necropost. But that was still fun to read
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Gotta get me my Boats 'n Hoes.
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Back to top, we seem to have a bunch of "new Reloader" posts.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Nice, thanks for putting this together!
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Stupid question. I've read the threads and may have skimmed over what i am asking but here it goes. How do you determine bullet seat depth and adjust it on your equipment? Is it just a trial and error? Sacrifice a few casings to get your stuff to the right adjustment?
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Look at Step 12 here:
www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=469 |
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View Quote Missed that. Thank you |
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Thanks for this info. Read this and I am starting out. I already have a very good reloading bench. Just bought a Lyman kit and accessories. Looking forward to reloading.
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A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
George S. Patton |
So here's what I'm afraid to ask. Been looking up through several guides/lists lately, but I still haven't found a single source that details out how much it actually costs to reload with a price breakdown. Powder, bullets, and primers aren't reusable and brass sometimes can be if you're able to pick them back up. (Shooting at an indoor range or a bench and not moving around)
I have about a $2000-$3000 budget in mind after I move next year for a really nice reloading setup that will hopefully enable me to enjoy a crap ton of ammo. Not many people here mention the Dillon Super 1050, but I'm guessing because it's a really high end setup. But I'm trying to create a spreadsheet of just how much it costs per round to reload with and without brass for certain calibers just to try and envision how much money I'd be saving over say... a period of 10 years of shooting. Any good sources to find that kind of information out? How much it costs to reload each round with and without replacement brass cost for 9mm, .45ACP, 5.7mm, 5.56, .308, .50BMG, and maybe even 7.62x39 and 5.45x39? |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Depends on the price you paid for the components.
Pay high LGS price, or buy in bulk? Depending on caliber, reloading will about half the cost of factory rounds. Go to top of page in LINKS, find venders and start pricing components.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
In bulk.
I forgot to add the key thing I wanted to ask! How much have prices been rising and how has supply been? Future still bright regarding this? I just remember hearing a bunch of people at the gun store sad about how there was never any primers or other reloading supplies during the last panic. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By Johnson184: In bulk. Check vender prices.(links) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes I forgot to add the key thing I wanted to ask! How much have prices been rising and how has supply been? Future still bright regarding this? Primers and brass are back, powder not so much. I just remember hearing a bunch of people at the gun store sad about how there was never any primers or other reloading supplies during the last panic. True, some of us have reloaded a while and have ample stocks to last through panics. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
The supply just kind of depends upon where you are shopping. Here in N. ID we have quite the ample stock on shelves. A bit pricey but not to bad. ($34.79 for a brick of primers) Also depends on the demand. We have plenty of powder at the LGS ($20-25 per lb) but is plentiful. I would suggest if it is something that your planning on doing. Start grabbing a brick(bottle etc.) or two while it's on the shelf. Shop on the web Auctions and start bidding for a cheaply priced item (brass Etc.)
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Been googling up swaging... maybe I'm just an idiot at this stuff, but I still don't understand it. Can someone please explain it to me like I'm 5?
My goal is to get into reloading after this school semester ends over the summer as I just don't have the time to even reload right now even if I knew everything about reloading. Calibers I'd like to reload are 9mm, 5.56, and .308 primarily with possibly .45 and even 300 blackout or 5.7mm in the future. Been eyeing the Dillon 550 and the Super 1050, and the Super 1050 seems like a really nice setup aside from initial cost. Just a lot less human involvement on my end besides placing the bullet each time. I hear changing the Super 1050 out for caliber conversions is pricey and extremely slow, but I never hear exactly why it's such a slow process. Does it really take 30 minutes to an hour?? And this may be a dumb assumption... but from what I've read, it can cost $300-$500 easily to get caliber conversions for the Super 1050... at that price... might it be more prudent to just acquire an additional Dillon 550 instead for that lesser used caliber? lol Also from my research... it seems 9mm and 5.56 both use small primers so if I were to get a Dillon Super 1050 set up for one... I'd just have to change out the top portion for a faster caliber conversion. Is this correct? |
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Swaging is the way most factory bullets are made. At home for 223 bullets you can take a 22lr shell that has been fired, put it on a pin that is slightly smaller than 22 or 22 cal that then goes into a die on your press. This takes the rim off, and leaves you with a brass shell with no rim. You aneal these now to make them soft and easy to form for the next steps. You then cast or use lead wire of the appropriate size, and make a slug that goes inside of your empty shell, and squish it in real good. The next step is to start forming a bullet in a forming die in the press. You push the case with the lead in it up into the die, and it forms the bullet shape. Extra lead usually squishes out of the top. At this point you can load and shoot, but most put in one more die that forms the tip nice and pointy. These die sets are not cheap, and cost about 1200$ on up for a starter set for 223. Castboolits has a section just for swaging. I would suggest checking it out.
If you are starting out I would just stick with the 550. It is a great press that holds its value, and when you want to upgrade you will get your money out of it. I am cheap, and just use a lee loadmaster for progressive, and their classic turret press for other stuff. Works just fine, but I am a tinkerer. I would leave swaging, and casting out for a while until you get a hang of things. It is a whole other process to learn, and perfect.If you want to try casting the 300 blackout is a great candidate, 223 can be frustrating because of the size of the boolits. 45, and 9mm cast fine, and work well powder coated. I would not do 9mm unless powder coated for starters like yourself. 9mm can be finicky due to variance to bore diameter, and a tapered case. |
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Swaging is casting?? I thought it was something to do with taking out a primer and resetting it for regular primers from military style crimping or something.
Bump though for the Dillon 550/1050 primer sizing questions. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By Johnson184: Swaging is casting?? I thought it was something to do with taking out a primer and resetting it for regular primers from military style crimping or something. Bump though for the Dillon 550/1050 primer sizing questions. View Quote |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By Johnson184:
Swaging is casting?? I thought it was something to do with taking out a primer and resetting it for regular primers from military style crimping or something. Bump though for the Dillon 550/1050 primer sizing questions. View Quote Yes, it can mean that as well. Swaging is not casting, but a way to make bullets with jackets. The Dillon super swage 600 puts a rod in the primer pocket to squish out the crimp. You dont have to swage your primer pockets, a case mouth reamer will remove the little lip or "crimp" that NATO ammo has on it with just a twist. |
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Swaging in reloading is typically referring to Military crimp removal of the crimps that hold in MIlitary primers.
It helps to know, the crimp is nothing more than a press to move metal from the sides over the edge of the primer. This creates little dimples that when you press out a primer some remains and will catch a new primer making it cock to one side or not go in at all. The two most common methods of removing crimps is boring which is nothing more than a rotary method of deburring just like deburring the trimming of brass. In fact, you can use Torpedo type deburing tools to manually do this. There's a variety of hand tools and bits that do the same thing, some are two stage and even leave a slight bevel (slant) to help guide the new primer into the pocket. Bits can be used on a variety of tools from hand tools to electric tools like drills or work stations. Swaging acts more like the tool that made the crimp in the first place. It doesn't involve removing any metal but simply moving it by using a punch the size of the pocket to simply smash it out of the way. Like the other method, those can come single stage, just the pocket or two stage pocket and bevel. Some like RCBS, with the presss you already have, some have their own press, and yet others like the Dillon use a spring and its own frame. What I use is a dedicated single station press with an RCBS and after I Swage I use a work station mounted torpedo stone to do a very fast mere seconds debur of the bevel. Like all things in forming metal, there's many ways to skin the same cat. Tj |
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"We prepare so we don't have to go to the Superdome!"
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Some days its just easier to be an asshole.
ND, USA
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Bump to keep this out of the archives
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Proud Member of Team Ranstad .... The Fantastic Bastards
You have enemies? Good.That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.-W. Churchill The mob is fickle, brother. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Some days its just easier to be an asshole.
ND, USA
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Not needed as this thread has been toggled to keep it out of the archives. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By nightdh:
Bump to keep this out of the archives Not needed as this thread has been toggled to keep it out of the archives. Awesome! I didn't know that was possible without being tacked. [/derailing] |
Proud Member of Team Ranstad .... The Fantastic Bastards
You have enemies? Good.That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.-W. Churchill The mob is fickle, brother. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By nightdh: Awesome! I didn't know that was possible without being tacked. [/derailing] View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By nightdh: Originally Posted By dryflash3: Originally Posted By nightdh: Bump to keep this out of the archives Not needed as this thread has been toggled to keep it out of the archives. Awesome! I didn't know that was possible without being tacked. [/derailing] The problem is only mods can see the "toggle" symbol that denotes a thread that will not slip into the archives. This is one of my favorite threads to link to for new posters/new reloaders. The last 4 or 5 pages of this forum contain the "toggled" threads. Some good stuff (threads) back there. BTY is like that in most forums here. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Bumping back to page 1 for an IM request.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Wonderful thread. Exactly what I needed to know to figure out if I want to get into reloading.
Thank you! |
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Their loss. Some of us have learned that the best place to start with any new topic are the stickies at the top of the appropriate forum.
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield |
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